Waxing Philosophical

Good morning sir, we're with..

I know who you're with.

Well what we'd like to talk to you about is...

I know what you want to talk to me about. I know what your beliefs are and without being disrespectful, I don't really believe the things you do.

Well, sir what we'd like to ask you is if you believe in God, Satan, Good, Evil, Heaven and Hell?
That was how I was greeted by the two, very attractive young ladies standing on my door step. One appeared to be about 21 and the other maybe 19 or a bit younger. Both dressed very nicely, with large black tote bags and their bibles. I politely invited them both into my house. Not for that reason. I would have invited them in whether or not they had been attractive. I invited them in because they were young and young people think. They aren't yet callused against those of us who don't follow their beliefs completely.

Now just to shine some light on me and my beginnings into religion, spirituality and the world of church; I was raised by a mother who had no idea what she wanted to be, believe or what church was best for her but in her quest for knowledge or salvation or what have you, I have been dragged from church to church and had religion thrown down on me since I can remember. I was christened Catholic. I've gone to non-denominational Christian churches, Methodist churches and even been beat over the head with the word of God at a Pentecostal Church. I've studied the Pagans, the Celts, the Saxons and Wicca. I've delved into Deism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Druidism, Confucianism and Taoism. I am, by no means, trying to say I know everything about anything but I could consider myself a bit of a Renaissance Man when it comes to religion and spirituality. I know enough to hold an intelligent conversation with people and to hold my own while doing so. Truthfully; I know just enough to be dangerous. What I hope to do is make some people think and piss off the others that are too closed minded to think for themselves and I think I do a fairly decent job at both.

So it is with this scattered knowledge that I invited these young followers of religion into my home to talk religious philosophy, the bible, my beliefs and maybe, just maybe give these two young ladies something to think about.

So we sat down in my living room after offering them something to drink and our conversation began. I sat crossed legged on the floor in front of them. They sat, closed off to me, on the couch. Arms folded across their chests and leaning away from me. I don't think they really wanted to hear what I was going to say but they were being cordial. "Do you believe in God?" the older of the two asked. "Not in the same one as you." "What do you mean by that?" "Well, your religion tells you to believe in God because the bible and the stories in it tell you he exists. You've chosen to believe out of the revelation of others. I believe if there is something out there, it isn't the white robed, omnipotent being, standing on a golden street, somewhere in the sky.  I think if there is something out there, it doesn't really care one way or another about any of us.  We've been left to our own devices.  We're a discarded science experiment".

"What about the devil?" the younger asked. She was beginning to relax a little, her arms now down to her side. "If he exists, I think he's one of Gods greatest creations." "What would make you say something like that?" the older sister asked. "Well, as religion goes, if there were no Satan there would be no need for God as you know it. There would be no need for religion. All would be good with no need to search for something better. Satan is doing what God created him to do." "God didn't create Satan this way. Lucifer turned against God." "Really? Do you believe the bible?" I asked the girls. "Of course we do." "Okay, then you believe the only one of Gods creations that He gave free will was man. Right?" "Yes. That's what makes us his most loved creation. It's why Lucifer and the other angels got jealous and turned against him." "Now listen to what you just said "God gave only man free will but the angels and Lucifer got jealous and turned against him". It can't be both ways. If God didn't give the angles free will they couldn't decide to turn against him. They had to have been created to do that. So, as I see it Satan or Lucifer is doing exactly what God created him to do. He's carrying out his God given mission because he doesn't have free will. So based on that, I think when this world is finished and time doesn't exist any longer, Lucifer will take his seat next to God for a job well done." On that note you should have seen the looks on those two girls faces. Shock doesn't do it justice. "So you think God knows what Satan is going to do?" "Do you believe God is omnipotent?" "Of course he is." "Then He has to know. He knows what you're going to do, what I'm going to do and what Satan is going to do. Which kinda goes against that whole free will thing, doesn't it?" "What do you mean?" "Well if God is omnipotent then our free will is just an illusion. If He is omnipotent and omnipresent, all knowing, all seeing, He knows what we are going to do. Our destiny is predetermined and our "free will" is just what I said, an illusion. We think we have free will, the ability to make a choice, but He already knows what we are going to do."

I think this is where our conversation took a turn. They no longer seemed to be there to talk to me about their church but question me about my beliefs. Both of them had relaxed themselves, their arms down and they were leaning toward me now. "Then what about good and evil?" "I don't know if I really believe in good and evil, per say, but like the Taoists I do believe in consequences. Everything we do effects our life and the world around us. Everything we do has consequences if you buy a homeless man a sandwich the consequence is he eats. If you drive drunk the consequence may be getting in an accident or going to jail. Not all consequences are bad so if you weigh things out and are willing to suffer or enjoy the consequences than do it. Not all religions consider all the same things sins. In fact sin and morality are both geographical. So, good and evil are enigmas." I think it was the younger sister that said she didn't understand what I meant. "Somethings we look down upon in the US and based on our religions, practices and beliefs may not be looked down upon in China or by someone who practices another religion. Therefore both are geographical."

They were both completely relaxed with me now and were both leaning forward listening to me. "Then what are your beliefs on heaven and hell? If there's no real good or evil, what happens with your soul when you die?" "Personally? I have no idea. What I believe is my energy, or spirit, will become part of everything around us. It's what the Druids and Taoists believe and those mirror my beliefs the closest. Sort of another dimension of where we are right now. To me it may explain ghosts and other psychic phenomena. There are too many sightings for me to just shrug them off so maybe it's the next dimension crossing over slightly. As for hell? I think hell is more of a purgatory for people not ready to move on. When they're ready they'll cross over to their heaven, whether it be heaven as Christians know it or Valhalla or Shangri La or what have you." It was the older sister who asked me this time "So you think everyone in hell will go to heaven? What makes you think this?" "Well, if you believe the bible, then you believe it too. According to your religion to get in to heaven you have to claim that Jesus Christ is Lord, the bible also says at the end of time every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. So if both are true than at the end of time everyone will go to heaven. I also have trouble believing that just because you're not a Christian you can't go to heaven. The Jews don't believe Jesus was the son of God, but they're supposed to be His chosen people. Buddhists believe in charity, love and peace. Live their lives with those beliefs to the best of their ability, why would a forgiving God punish good people for living good lives?" "So you think Hitler or Hussein or people like that will go to heaven?" "Well, if you believe in an omnipotent God that creates everything, than yes, I guess I do. God created them knowing what they would do. Created them with a destiny. So why would he punish them with eternal damnation for fulfilling what He created them to do. It's kind of like the Lucifer thing. Why could you create something to do a job and then punish or destroy it for doing what you made it to do? It just doesn't make any sense to me."

We sat for a while and talked about other things but that was the end of our religious conversation. When the girls had finished their drinks I escorted them to the door, shook their hands and said our good-byes. As they were walking down the drive way I heard the younger ask her sister "Do you think he might be right?" I smiled to myself as I went back upstairs. I didn't set out to change anyone's mind. I just wanted to give them some food for thought. I think I did that without attacking their beliefs and maybe they'll ask some questions and not take everything someone tells them as the gospel truth.